Bill stopped by and we tweaked the timing and carb on #ProjectSportsRoof.
For the first time the stars of this blog are in the same Air Space!
Check it out!
It was a good day. The tweak smoothed out the new carb and I don’t think I ever saw Bill this happy working on BeebBeep. It must be he’s really a Ford guy at heart (Oh his daily driver – A MUSTANG!!).
I remember when you could go into a auto parts store and the clerks knew something about cars.
When I was a kid (back in the early 1970’s) my Dad owned a body shop. I’d work there on weekends (for …”the roof over you head”) and summers. I learned a lot about cars and enjoyed it (most of it). One of the coolest things was heading over the automotive parts and paint places. So much cool stuff to look at, paint books with paint chips in them, tools and gadgets. You could talk for an hour about the cars you were working on. If you asked a question they normally had a useful answer. If you wanted advice you would get some, sometime even if you did ask there was a good chance you’d get some. NAPA was big back then and had paint as well.
Those places are long gone now, mostly. Now no one has the parts in stock and worse most of the clerks have no idea about car parts (insert Rock Auto theme song) and there is nearly 100% reliance on a computer. There is just no way a parts clerk should utter the phrase “I can order it.” Oh and talk about your car project?…’fer getta bou it’!
This whine is was brought about by my recent purchase of a fuel pump for #ProjectSportsRoof (my 1973 351 Cleveland powered Mustang).
Normally, I don’t use names of companies but I’m going to now.
I purchased the Speedmaster fuel pump from Summit Racing Equipment. Speedmaster also has their own site where they sell these as well.
The pump is designed to be configurable to give the best fit possible. The pump showed up with no fittings – which I guess it normal now days. It also showed up with no instructions. Just the pump in the box and two gasket stuck under the bottom box flap. Instruction would have been nice if I need to swivel the IN/OUT.
I didn’t think the hardware would be a problem I could use the male end from the old pump and pick up the other at a local parts store. I figured that I’d double check their site for instructions just in case I need anything different, after all this pump pushed a bunch more fuel then the OEM version.
I went to Speedmaster’s web site and looked up the pump and clicked the instructions link. Nothing happened. I called the company to see if they could email me instructions. The ‘clerk’ said “We don’t have any instruction, but I do have diagram.” I prompt him with, “You don’t have instruction?” He confirmed. I said O.K. , send me the diagram, thinking to myself, that will have some information. Here is what I got:
Lets compare:
This is my ome pump
This is the Speedmaster pump.
Not seeing it!!!
So I called up Summit Racing Equipment and spend 1 hour 22 minutes on hold (I was editing video during that time). I was then requested to leave my number and a tech could text me back. 5 hours later….I get a text. I asked the question about instructions. The next day I get a text that says “It’s a pretty straight forward installation.” So I called. Summit again. I was on hold for 45 minutes and finally got someone to answer my question which was – what size it the OUT thread so I can get a fitting. (originally I thought I’d get the proper fitting for the flared steel line). Summit told me I shouldn’t use the steel line and to just get the male to 3/8 barb. I asked again what size threads? He said 3/4″ to 3/8″ barb. I ran to 3 Auto Parts stores and no one had this fitting. (That is the short version – most didn’t even know what I was talking about, much less knew if they had anything like that.) I order some from Amazon and they next day delivery with my Prime membership! They didn’t fit. So I found Speedmaster on Facebook and asked the question. Here is how that 3 day conversation went:
Speedmaster Automotive Parts Store Tue 6:43 PM———————————————————–Note the time. I purchased this: Brand: Speedmaster
Manufacturer’s Part Number: PCE146-1014
Part Type: Fuel Pumps
What size male fitting do I need from your pump to a 3/8 barb? Tue 11:07 PM——————————————————————–Note the time 3/8 npt—————————————————————————Response Wed 2:29 PM——————————————————————-Note time 38 npt to 38 barb? 3/8 npt to 3/8 barb (my correction)
No response ?
No response
(I called the Speedmaster again then Facebook messaged them) Wed 4:12 PM————————————————————————Note time I’m confused. Summit says 3/4 to 3/8 barb. I just talked to someone at your location via phone they said 3/4npt. But 3/4 npt does not fit. If I didn’t already have the pump in the car I’d return it and buy something that there with clear instruction and well informed support. ….🙁 I’ll have to pick up both sizes tomorrow and I’ll get back to you on the actual size!
—————————————————————————————-NOTE LACK OF RESPONSE.
(My follow up to the chat) Thursday 1:13 PM Here is exactly what fitting is needed.
805NSED – 3/8 barb X 5/16 npt Hose Barb X Inverted Flare
Something you SHOULD know but no one did. Don’t feel do bad even Summit, where I purchased it got it wrong.
Welcome back to #ProjectSportRoof, the on going saga of my 1973 Mustang Sports Roof.
I have a lot of projects going on with ProjectSportsRoof, mainly because it NEEDS a lot work. Plus the whole COVID19 thing has parts on back order and shipping delays, blah, blah, blah!
I ordered a new fuel pump and the project shipping date was Oct 2020….canceled that order. Found one that was in stock and shipped in 3 days – DONE!
So as I wait for that important part, I figured I’d replace the front shocks, which by the way were on back order for 2 weeks. Turns out it was a good idea, as it uncovered an issue that might help solve a current problem…you’ll see!!
Now, I didn’t show you my step by step removal and installation, shocks are pretty straight forward. Here’s the video (BTW I don’t normally do a sit down chat but I did today):
Welcome back to #ProjectSportsRoof – my 351C powered 73 Mustang Sports Roof!
I’m pressing on with tracking down the cause of the frequent stalling of the bored .040 351C.
I suspected vapor lock, but with the fuel line insulated against the heat of the manifold and block, I didn’t get the ‘boiling’ sound, that might not be the issue. But I couldn’t keep it running in idle. So the fuel press test was next. Here’s the video:
As of this afternoon, the Cleveland is having issue starting – fuel related.
The fuel pump feeding the juice to the carb is a generic stock not sure of the specs. Here is what I’m going to replace it. Oh and it is tough to find anything for 351 Cleveland on the local market. Even on-line, I was looking at out stock everywhere and ship dates of Oct 2020! Thanks Pandemic!!!
Procomp Electronics high-volume mechanical fuel pumps are designed to work with stock or mildly modified engines. They deliver free-flow outputs of 115 gph–that’s twice what a normal pump typically delivers! These pumps are plated with a bright finish for good looks and corrosion resistance. The lower housings can be rotated through 360 degrees to make fitting into tight places a snap, and they have large orifices for high flow rates. Procomp Electronics high volume mechanical fuel pumps are not compatible with methanol or alcohol fuels, and should not be used with fuel injection systems. Order the model recommended for your specific vehicle and engine size.
Vapor lock. What is it, why does it happen and how to tackle and solve the problem. We are going to do it together!
My 1973 Mustang with the newly re-constructed engine has gladly stepped up and volunteered to be our test subject. (Sarcasm or dismay? You decide!)
Where to start? Let’s go from the discovery of the problem to the possible causes to the possible solutions.
Took the gray beast out for another shake down run. I ran down the to local auto parts store, about a 3 mile drive and it was a spirited drive. I was searching for a bolt for the passenger side seat, some how misplaced the original when I was putting the new floor panels and carpet in. I was in the store for 8 minute top – they aren’t as friendly as they use to be. Use to be you would show up and chat up everyone and discuss what you were working on. These days you are lucky to find someone that knows what a bolt is. (Sorry but that’s almost true!!) As of this writing we are still in COVID19 lock down…(don’t judge me….I really needed that bolt!!!) and they were even less friendly. Sorry…I digressed. (O.K., if I was really sorry I’d go back and remove this, so lets just consider it “color” and not digression).
After 8 minutes (most of that as the clerk silently pawed through some bolts in the back), I returned to the Mustang and turned the key. It started hard – 4-5 tries. On the drive back it kept feeling like she wasn’t getting gas. Temporarily losing a bit of power. Got home lifted the hood and I could hear the gurgling in the carb.
Here are some specs on the 1972 351 Cleveland that is in my 1973 body:
351C V2
The block is bored out .o4o make it 4.040″
Crank machined .020 under.
Topped with a Edelbrock Performer intake and 1413 800 CFM 4bbl Carb.
Just replaced the cam with Comp Cam FC 268H-10 grind.
— Gross Valve Lifit .494 Intake and .494 Exhaust
— Duration .006 tappet lift 268 for both Intake and Exhaust
— Valve Timing @.006
—Intake Opent 28.0 and BTDC Closed 60.0 ABDC
— Exhaust opent 28.0 and BBDC Closed 20.0 ATDC
Installed Specs
@106.0 Intake center line
Duration @ .050 Intake 219 Exhaust 219
Lobe lift Intake .2860 and the same for Exhaust
Lobe separation 110.0
What is vapor lock?
Vapor lock causes a car to stop running when the fuel in the system overheats. It is most likely to happen when driving on hot days and in stop-and-go traffic. (It was only in the upper 80’s that day) Constant acceleration and deceleration makes your engine work harder, causing it to run hotter. (I was doing a bunch of accelerating – da!) Excess heat causes the fuel to vaporize. This keeps the fuel from reaching the engine.
Many carbureted engines have fuel pumps located near or next to the engine. (Yup!) The pump’s closeness to the engine, as with some T-types, causes the fuel in the line to become very hot. When heated, fuel turns to a vapor, like water turns to steam when boiled. This process is hastened by the vacuum created in the line as the fuel is sucked into the engine.
When the fuel turns to vapor, the fuel pump can no longer move it through the system. As a result, the fuel doesn’t get to the combustion chambers; the car runs roughly; or it dies. Meanwhile, the car will not restart or will continue to have problems if it does.
So, the main cause is over heated fuel and I’m guess hearing it boiling in the carb is clearly not a positive thing. Other cause could be:
— portions of the fuel line are to close to the engine or exhaust causing the over heating.
— to large of a carb leaving extra gas sitting in the bowls, being heated.
So, first I want check the positions of the lines. Check out the video.
There is only the one area that could be the problem and that is from the fuel pump to the carb. I pick up some Vapor Block
Fuel Line Split Sleeve by DEI. So I’m gong to wrap that area. We’ll see what happens, so check back
I’m not a “huge” numbers matching guy, but there are a few cars that I think we should always try to keep their original power plants. Corvettes are one of those cars and Mustang – mostly.
My 1984 Corvette had the much loved (by much loved, I mean hated) GM CrossFire engine (with all of it’s 205 hp). It was a huge pain. I must have rebuild those injectors 5 times in the course of my ownership but there just weren’t that many CrossFires left out there.
So Corvettes should retain there original engines and the same is true as I mentioned some Mustangs. Clearly not with my 1970 Mustang that was born with a 250, six cylinder with dealer installed under-the-dash A/C. It wasn’t going to cut it. Turn on the A/C and you had a peddle car. I didn’t stray to far, I ordered 302 long block, bored .030. I caught some flack from the local Ford 6 cylinder crew for the swap…but it might have been because I didn’t offer them the tired old 250. I donated it to young kid was learning at a local shop and needed a engine to work on. You can see a lot of those details right here on my blog. Entirely different story with #ProjectSportsRoof (1973 Mustang). It’s a 351 Cleveland and there aren’t many of those left out there. I rebuild the engine a year and 1/2 ago. Just had a lifter go rouge (with only 250 miles on the rebuilt) It now has a new comp cam lifters and rods. For less than 1/2 of all that was spend I could have dropped in 400hp Windsor crate engine, but I just couldn’t.
Valve gasket installed, zinc added and now it’s time for quick power test. I have yet to get the pedal to the floor and now it’s time and I took the captured the fun….and…well…take a look:
You can hear how awesome the SR73 sounds and power was substantial. Of course the quick trip ended in a less than optimal way. The first effort of the power test was successful, that wasn’t captured. I turned the phone on for the second and you can hear that. I had intended a third power sprint but SportsRoof had a different idea. I could feel it start to surge and then nothing. There was no noise, a brief sputter, like perhaps it flooded (entirely possible as the carb is a bit bigger then it should be). I coasted it to the side of the street.
A quick troubleshooting proved that the car was still getting fuel but would not start. After setting for a bit still not firing up. I suspect distributor. When I have time I’ll dig into.
Maybe one of the worse task to tackle on a car is the heater core. In particular on some older cars. In most cases you have to remove the entire dash. I know this because when the heater core sprung a leak in my 1974 Cobra Jet Torino, I didn’t …
This is the last post related to prepping the 351 Cleveland in #ProjectSportRoof for removal. Originally, I had planned to lift the engine out with the carb still attached. However, after the first test fit to see how the Duralast leveler (I’ve never used one before – last engine I pulled …
Welcome back to Project Sports Roof (#ProjectSportsRoof). The struggle is real!!! You saw in the last video my replacement of the linkage that was lost by the repair shop (along with my new battery and started). This repair shone the light (as often happens with older cars) on a previous …
In the two videos below I talk about valve cover gaskets, the current lack of experts at your local parts store, and online “No Help” clerk and a recommendation for the Mustangs regular dosage of Zinc – not in table form for the Mustang’s 351 Cleveland!!!
If you look back at #ProjectSportsRoof post you’ll see the condition engine bay. During those videos I mentioned that I was going to clean it up and hit it with a rattle can. Again this isn’t going to be a concours restoration, it’s going to look nice and it’s going …
Thanks for checking on #ProjectSportsRoof. So here is the last set of initial questions. Here is an image of the current set up: Any diagram I find has the hose vacuum from the Distr going to the Valve assy. The Valve assy has nothing attached which is located on the front …
