I’ve worked on the gas delivery systems in my Vettes and Mustangs. This always involves removing gas lines from the carb or throttle bodies and of course the possibility of leaks after re-installing them. One of the last things you want is gas leaking here and there in your engine bay..NOT GOOD!
I’ve always use teflon tape to wrap the threads.
Teflon Tape on one of the Corvette’s fuel lines.
This helps seal the connection, and sometimes with older cars you need that was the threads aren’t bad enough to replace….errk…Getting new fittings and flaring the gas lines is sometimes necessary and can be a pain..but if threads are really worn, take the time to do that. Yes..I know cutting the lines and get correct type hose and some clamps you’ll be fine…but it won’t look as good and since both of my car are trophy winners at car shows, I try to keep them looking professional.
Using the tape does have a of couple drawbacks. It can form a lip around the gas line opening, partially blocking the flow. Additionally, pieces can tear off during installation and get into the system. So some companies offer a thread sealer in a tube, which is made of Teflon in paste form. I’m using that next time I have to go into the fuel systems. I know that Permatex makes some (what don’t those people make!?!?!!?!). They call it thread sealant and it comes in different “models” like High Performance and High Temperature.
The last I blogged about my Mustang I had finished up the installation of the new dash pad and replaced all the bulbs and cleaned up a few years of dust.
If you recall (well you don’t have to, just go back and read the posts) I talked about planning and how I could have saved time by waiting to put new dash pad on (not cap, pad) until the pillar molding came, but I decided not too. The molding came in today….so out with the old….
Old cracked and broken
And in with the new:
New
Mustang Unlimited
I have pretty good luck with Mustang Unlimted’s parts and service. I recommend them. (No I don’t get paid for plugs or compensated.)
These will have to be painted which is very common with interior parts. I even had to paint the replacement arm rest. I have the paint and I’ll post up the entire process.
I finally got the exhaust manifold taken care of (I didn’t do it). But apparent when I had the custom exhaust with hooker headers created and installed, they didn’t use locketight and they loosed up with the vibration of daily and drag strip racing. The right side had to be replaced and the left side was just tightened. Oh she sounds so much better.
Thanks for reading. I’ll get the pillar molding replacement pretty quick.
Finished this up today. Here are some pics. (Yeah..I know..forgot to take them before I put the air cleaner on…but you get the idea.)
Only issue..the thickness of the chrome covers was less than the originals and I had to get a shorter set of chrome bolts. I have got quite a collection for chrome bolts now!!
Ok..let me finish up blogging to you on this event. I had a read ask if it has really taken this long and the answer is No and Yes. (I’ll explain the YES in a bit..it ain’t pretty!!!!)
After find the correct bolts, wrestling the covers back into place was, I bolted them down. Installed they looked pretty good.
Check it out.
Left side painted and installed. Still missing the emblem..right now
The only difficulty was aligning the holes in the cover and the gasket and the engine. Due to the lack of room to maneuver I wasn’t able to keep the gasket and cover holes aligned while wrestling them into place. I used two (small enough to slide into the threaded holes without damaging) phillips head screw driver to help keep them aligned and put the bolts in.
Errrkk……whatever you do tighten them carefully…..let me spell that for you (Mickey Mouse Club tune playing in my head) C…A….R.(because you care about your car)…E…F….U…L…L…(cause you want to keep the oil full)…..Y…(because if you tighten too much on the 1984 C4 magnesium valve covers you’ll crack them and they can’t be welded, JB or other wise, and then you’ve got to find used ones, because aftermarket aren’t all that great)….Ok…end of Mickey Mouse Club song…and the end of one of the original valve covers….
And in case you didn’t get the between the lines intention of the above Errrkkkk…I broken one.
I wasn’t sure at first, my mind refused to process the sound so that I could be sure..it might have been a crack, or maybe I just crunched one of the plastic tubes covering a bundle of wires. Yeah..that’s it…I sure (it might have been a crack though….crap!!…let me spell that for you…oh…never mind….just invision huge font type all in upper case, bolded and underlined.)
I inspected the cover while it was in place and I couldn’t see anything and said…ok.average guy.. with average skills and average budget..you have above average luck…at least today…at least that’s what I thought…or hoped.
When that happens the only way to tell is to either take the cover back off and inspected…that wasn’t going to happen…or let her run and build up the oil pressure and see what happens….that is what you’d normally do any way after replace the gaskets.
Here she is running: (includes bonus views of the injectors…I think they are pretty cool to watch.)
Covers don’t look to bad…but they aren’t going to stay…because..there really was a crack…but it didn’t show up by leaking on this run…it should up the next day when I took the car to work. I checked it when I arrived (about a 15 minute drive) no leaking…drove it home and she started to run poorly and had no power…yeah….it was leaking…on to a spark splug….got home and a little puddle of oil formed under the car and…well lets just say as I replaced the tightening episode in my head the crunching noise…sounded a lot more like a crack..in fact it was very clear on the replay!!!! The little referee in my head….said ‘After reviewing the play..the ruling in the garage is over turned, and Tim is charged a time out and $400.00 fine for cracking the cover and the vette gets parked until the parts get here!’
Here is the pick where the crack occurred.
Yup...cracked!!!!
That was Monday (4/5/2010) fast forward to today new cover have arrived (chrome) and they’ll be installed today or tomorrow. So Yes it was finished and now No it’s not.
I’m now at the point where I can re-install the valve covers. I’ve painted them and cleaned up the gromets (for one of my vette buddies who was dismayed when the saw the interim pics).
If you remember I had to remove a few things including vacuum hoses, spark plug wires, a/c parts. In addition the bolts that hold the covers down had spark plug wire holders and other brackets for hold wires.
Brackets that would mount through with the bolt for the covers passing through.
Keep this in mind as I explain what I learned from my decision to use Fel-Pro gaskets.
Ok..fine enough dramma..lets get to the lesson I learned (which is often learned the hard way when you have average skills and less than average experience).
I am not smarter than the engineers at GM. They knew what they were doing when the used permatex…it was all about the bolts. Specifically, the length the engineers decided do use, or maybe it was the budget guys. They knew how to follow the build sheet. Here is the bottom line. The length of the bolts supported the thin layer of the permatex and the brackets shown above and that was it.
They did not support the thickness of the gaskets. They were just under a 1/4 too short. With the brackets and the Fel-Pro gasket in place barely two threads poke out, not enough to catch the thread on the engine. errrk….When did I know this and what got into your head to do it anyway?
Fare enough question. I found out when I queried a couple of Corvette forums about what gaskets to use. I got a lot of responses, everyone has an opinion..ya know!!! But only one had actually done an 84 C4 and he said..if you don’t use permatex you are going to have to get longer bolts and BTW your bracket for the spark holders won’t fit. So I knew this before I picked up the valve covers (but not before I ordered the set from the supplier).
Why I didn’t go with the permatex solution was the amount of space and jostling what I had to do when I took them out. I was pretty sure getting them back in would be worse and the changes of wiping off the some of the permatex and messing up the seal, making the odds of redoing it high.
Finding the longer bolt took some doing. The auto parts store…yes..yes.. the same one that said they didn’t have anything but cork and when querying another employee show me what I and originally asked for..didn’t have the proper bolts. The 84 C4 was all metric, bolts and nuts, you can even switch the digital the dash from US to metric. The heads are 11mm the threads were 6mm and the pitch was 1/4.
I ended up at ACE hardware and the only thing that would work and look good were the chrome. Ok…average guy with average budget…warning..they weren’t cheap…I know that when the manger took me to the back of the store and showed me a stack of boxes that were padlocked shut. They lock them up!!!! They were over $2.00 each, washers were nearly a $1.00.
So I decided on the chrome but they only had 7 bolts..I needed eight with washers as well, they only had 1 washer. When did we as a nation have a shortage chrome??? Any way I went ot another Ace and the guy there didn’t have any, but tried to tell me the ones I purchased at the other ACE wasn’t correct. He had the washers so I picked those up and traveled to the next ACE (they’re a lot like Walgreens..they’re on nearly every corner here in Tucson).
Replacing the covers was about the same as removing them and while doing it I was very glad I didn’t use the permatex, most of it wouldn’t have made it on the covers or the engine. I’m thinking at the GM factory they put the valve covers on before the AC and all the vacuum hoses and alternator…etc.
Tomorrow I’ll finish this up….well maybe…one more lesson was in store.
Here the next installment of the removal of the valve cover. There is very little room in this engine compartment, as compared to my 70 Mustang, and I had to remove a few things to just get the covers out.
But first a couple of mistaken assumptions I need to clear up. GM did not use cork from in the factory for the 84 vettes. They used Permatex sealer gasket maker. I got that wrong. Carrying on with that assumption as I viewed the old material in one of the videos, I suggested that the gasket had been replaced once before. That was based on the previous assumption that the factory used cork..in fact, what you will see in the video (post that one tomorrow) is the original factory seal. With 64k original mile, I’m guessing that is correct. (Learning is good…oh and don’t worry..I have one more lesson to share…..sigh)
These next photo shows how tight it is on the right side of the engine.
The black outline shows the span of the valve cover. The white shows the pieces that have to be removed.
There are a couple videos coming up andlet me tell you that aren’t great… its tough to record with one hand and work with the other…oh…well…you’ll see.
This next video shows the air cleaner coming off and a vacuum hose.
This next video is more of the same.
errrk.. I’ve learned that this blog take a while for video to process so I’ll have more video loaded tomorrow….errrk.
Of all the parts I had to remove on the right side the worse (meaning it’ll cost me later) was the A/C electrical sensor. You can see that in the picture above circled in white. Yeah….I know why the garage wanted $700.00 to replace these…..
When I advertised this project I blogged that I didn’t understand why GM, given how hot the 1984 C4 ran, would use cork as the material for the valve cover gasket and how I wouldn’t replace them with cork. So I called a popular Vette parts supply house and ordered Ultra-Seal. I did check locally. ok fine, I checked one place, the Checker Auto down the street, where, through some extremely ineffective communication (the guy didn’t know what he was talking about or what they had in stock), the employee said, “All we have is cork.”; to which I said, “No, thanks.”; to which he said, “I can order something else.” to which I said, “So can I.” (There… that bit of typing is for you grammar-sensitive types.)
I also tossed a query on the forum for the Vette group I belong to, and a couple said they do still use cork, and a couple highly suggested Fel-Pro. Funny, they said they got them from Checkers.
Yesterday, I received the Ultra-seal (made by Mr. Gasket) I ordered from the Vette parts place. The Ultra-seal…was cork!!!!!! So much for the description on the web. So I got on the phone to the Checkers down the street and I got an employee that actually knew what they had in stock. They had every type: rubber, rubber with metal, liquid, metal, and cork.
So when I got there, I picked up the set of the Fel-Pro and Mr. Gasket’s rubber gaskets. I hear my inner critic say “Hey, average car guy!!! Yeah…I’m talkin to you, Mr. Average budget!!! What do ya think ya doin’?!!”
Here’s the deal. I’ve never taken the valve covers off the Vette before, I’m not sure about the clearance, or the angle of the plane the valve cover sit..yadda..yadda. Plus, I kept the receipt so I can return them…and I will!!!! Promise!!!
So the Ultra-Seal looks like this:
CORK…BAD!!!!
Sorry about the pic ..didn’t open them because they have to go back.
The Mr. Gasket I purchased from Checkers was metal covered with thick rubber:
Mr.Gasket Rubber and Thick Metal
They are very similar in thickness and shape as the Ultra Seal.
The Fel-Pro are the ones I’m going to put on the car. They are metal covered with thin rubber and the holes are re-enforced with metal washers and are grooved.
Fel_Pro grooved and will hold better during installation.
