Well, I’ve been preoccupied over the past week with …ok…don’t shoot me, you classic car lovers…….working a trade for a 2007 Corvette with my 84 Corvette. Yeah, I know..WTH???
I know, I know. I love my 84, it’s unique and the value has increased since I’ve purchased it. But there is a desire to upgrade. This isn’t the first time I’ve considered getting another Vette, I actually considered a trade for my Mustang for a second Corvette.
I have to admit the recent troubles with my 84 does play a small part of the desire to replace it. And this 2007 Black on black C6 with 4oo plus hp, with a 6 six speed manual trans, with only 40k miles. Still under factory warranty. But the price was just unbelievable. The original deal fell through because we couldn’t agree on a good price for my Vette. But it looks like I might have a second shot at it tomorrow.
Even if, it’s hard to get rid of my first Vette and there is always the concern that you’ll regret it later. So I figured, I just add a third car to my stable!!!!!…..oh….that’s funnier then you might think….considering how UNDERSTANDING my wife has been with my current stable of classics….but even I know that’s way…yea…way too much for even a saint such that she is. “Love you cutie” (just in case she gets really bored and actually decides to read my dribble.)
So I’ll catch you all up by the end of the weekend.
Oh..here’s what we are looking at. Drop me a note and let me know what you would do!!!
2007 Vette Trade or not too Trade????
Another view...give you view....trade or not to trade???
I have a fun give way coming up as well as some more auto factoids and a quick fix for my Mustang.
As you know the electrical system failure was the alternator and it was replaced.
A now the story continues……
I picked the car up and it started fine, even had power to flip the lights up (it could do that when I dropped it off) and I drive two miles home. It ran just horrible. No power at all. That was worrisome.
Now the ’84 Vette has a very simplistic computer that controls the fuel injectors and it does take a bit after a “power outage” for it to get the mixture correct. This should happen after a couple of miles. Well by the time I got home there was no change in the how utterly horrible it ran. So I took it for another spin and still no change.
So I disconnect the battery for a few minutes and then tried it again…still the Vette could barely keep idle and giving it gas made it shake and the idle dropped to 400, 500 rpm. So I thought ..ok..I’ll drive it to work in the morning and see if the 10 + miles will straighten it.
Next morning, a Volkswagen bus filled with 40 people could have passed me like I was up on blocks!!!!
Ok…at this point I’m getting a little bit…P.O.’ed…(that’s short for…oh..you know what it’s short for!!) I call up my guys and I explain my displeasure. My take was that they should have test driven the car and that they have had the damn (that’s short for @#$@#%%!!!!!) thing enough to know that it wasn’t running right. I expanded on my thoughts in person when I limped the car back there after work..which was not a great day…which might have contributed to my disposition. Sorry Sean, but you ya know noting but love…its all good dude….Sean later told me I hurt the only “feeling” he had…I told him to get over it. They had a new guy there and he was the one that test drove it after the electrical work.
This was the start of a 3 day, all hands on deck, WTH…(that’s short for “What The Heck” >wink?<…I didn’t want to push the envelope with the “bad words”, because I would have had to add “put the kids to bed ..I’m about to use some adult verbiage”) is wrong with this car!!!
I’m thinking it’s still electrical, computer was F ‘ed (short for “fried”) or there was a short somewhere. I ended up at the garage a couple of nights after work poking around a bit – Tim Sisk the guy that runs the places is good about that.
So here is what was happened.
It appears that the evap system that is supposed to take the fumes from the gas tank for emissions was filling up with fuel every now and then. This system is supposed to push the fumes through a canister filled with charcoal and remove some of the harmful particles. Of course it doesn’t stop there the “cleaner” fumes then are pass back into the intake manifold to be “re-burned” and sent out in the world through the Vettes exhaust system. This simple hose highway runs along the entire length of the car and isn’t designed to handle fuel.
The end result was fuel running through the hose design for only fumes, traveled the hose highway all the way to the front of the car, filling the charcoal canister – which wasn’t designed to hold gasoline. Once full the gas has not where to go but across the engine, just following Avenue Hose, and dumping fuel directly in to the intake. That’s the cause of the poor (understatement) idling and running. The car was drowning in fuel.
Canister - now rendered useless.
How does this happen? Well it occurs when too much pressure builds up in the fuel tank. The venting of the fumes is supposed to prevent that. Once the pressure builds, which doesn’t take long with a full fuel tank, the gas has to go somewhere, so it takes a trip up the evap hose.
Now, here is where a guy starts to wonder WTH (short for….) am I doing with a one off car???!!! Really the 84 Vette is a one off production year. There were not ’83 Corvettes sold and although it has the same basic engine as the ’82 Covertte crossfires, nothing else was the same, and the ’85 Vette was an entirely different animal. This leads to a fairly significant lack of printed knowledge on the system..this many years out. Why do I mention this? Because it’s tough to find the knowledge after this long and the newer repair books treat the ’84 systems as ..”oh yeah..it’s not the same as the ’85 or the “L83 (my engine) is similar.” Gee..thanks for that. But it is different and it’s not similar in many ways.
Here is one.
The fuel tank on ’85 Vette has what is called a check valve with allows vapor to travel through it, but if fluid enters it, a small ball is pushed by the denser liquid to a point where it will block the hole. There is a diagram of that in many of the new repair books. But there are none for the ’84, and no, upon actually view the parts, you aren’t going to see anything that looks like the ’85 check valve.
Ok..armed with is knowledge, I showed up at the garage and share the info. This left us all scratching our heads. There seemed not logical reason for pressure to build up. There is only the fuel pump down there (that we tested in a bucket of fuel and worked as it should) there was only one other fuel delivery system was the “limp home” system which use the oil sending unit to push just enough, when the tank was low or fuel pump failed, to get you home or a repair shop.
This lead into the third day, at which point the fuel module was removed from the tank again and it was discovered that there was indeed a check valve.
There is a check valve built-in to the fuel module, it had a piece something (appeared to be plastic or maybe rubber) lodged in it large enough to keep the ball in a position where the it increased the pressure so much that sent it shooting fuel out up the vacuum line. It was incorporated into the system in a way that was not conducive to separate replacement. It was cleaned and that solved the problem..well most of it.
The canister should be replaced find one it not easy. Right now we replaced the PVC valve with a right-angled and the canister is no longer in the flow.
For my 84 that’s not a problem since there is no sensor that checks that and the car is running great. I’m not sure but I think she’d even pass emission, unless they were to visually see that it wasn’t connected.
Of course I’m a big tree hugger and (you can tell because the Mustang gets 4 gallons to the mile ..hey that’s what dead dinosaurs are for!!!!) so I’ll eventual get it replaced. If I can find one. In the mean time I’ve re-routed the hose to protrude under neigth the engine so the fumes don’t fill the engine bay.
Some pics:
Hose Highway with Canister
End of the hose that is supposed to travel on to the Intake, now routed under the car, temporarily.
So there you have. Good thing there wasn’t a car crusher in towing distance….nah…I love that car.
So I bring the Vette home and the steering feels pretty good and although my 70 Mustang has power steering (I had been driving that all week..yeah..I know..”poor baby!!!”) there really is no comparison between the two. I get home and park it for the night.
Next morning I’m up early going to wash both cars, so jump behind the wheel of the Vette to pull it forward a bit and…..nothing!!! No power, nor lights, no key in the ignition buzzer, nothing. Hey, there wasn’t even a clicking noise when turning the key. I’m think great..what could I have left on that would kill the battery that badly. Answer was nothing.
Now if you’ve some of my earlier entires, you’ll recall that electricity and I mix like, um….like..um…Amps and water!!!! As long as it stays in the wire and gets from switch to device and nowhere else, I’m good. Have that perfect universe interrupted and I’m not hanging with that. I hate electrical work. I hate thinking about, hearing about it and living through it. And this isn’t limited to car, but that’s my topic here.
So I get out and raise the hood, but for I get to far I see a huge spot of fluid laying under the car. Right about now I’m starting to get that…”all old cars should be crushed” thought running through my head and then..”I’m gonna find the guy that did that work, right now, on a Sunday and drag his happy but out of church (if such a demon would be allowed in one) and rub his noise in my…yeah…you guessed it….power steering fluid!!! (Breath…breath..that was two weeks ago….come one now..simmer dow…………..HEY IT STILL FEELS LIKE YESTERDAY!!!! Ok….ok…better now, it’s over and it turned out….OH>>>WHOA….don’t tell them now they won’t read the next two posts and your rating will drop below 2 reads a day!!!…Yes…Yes must get a grip!!!!)
So I started up the Mustang (they sit side by side together in the driveway nose to butt – have to back the Vette in or it won’t clear the end of the driveway) and maneuvered it over to the Vette so I can jump it with jumper cables. I have a fairly new jump box but it never really seemed to work, and then I lost the power adapter ( stupid electricity) and it just sits in my garage. I hook the cars together with jumper cables and allow the Mustang to run on high idle. Get in the Vette and …nothing… not even single dash light. The charging when on for some time before I could get the Vette to turnover and she started up, but she wasn’t happy. I took the cables off and then for some unexplained reason I turn the vette off.
Crap!!! So I turned the key, but I already knew how that would because there was still no key in the ignition buzzer..nope….and no click of the starter solinoid…and that would be a triple “Crap”!!!! It took just as long to get her started again only this time I wasn’t going to turn it off. I drove it over to the guys that put in the rack and pinion steering (of course it’s Sunday and I call and let some one know I was leaving it and to put it inside. At this point I wasn’t happy, the power steering leak on a new system and now an electrical issue!!!!
Next day was a Monday and I called up my friend Tim and said, “Hey..uncool to find fluid leaking and my electrical system is f ‘ ed (short for fried….yeah right).
In the end it was just a hose that didn’t get tightened, oh and my alternator was in fact f ‘ed (short for fried). The alternator came that afternoon and the car was ready the next day. And that is that…end of ……………..yeah…nope…..I wish!!!!!
If you can guess what’s next, I’ll send you a DVD.
OH..here is the new rack and pinion all clean and nice looking!!!
New Rack and Pinion This was taken today 8/31/2010
Thanks for reading and yes Steve Sears..you have to wait for tomorrow for the rest.
Every one that reads this blog knows that older cars, no matter how careful you, or how much you baby your car you are going to have problems. That’s the nature of any relationship. Things break, undiscovered issues, or even your own missteps can issues. You just can’t through in the towel “Honey, I’m going to have to find another mate, you just can’t run as far as you use too.” or “Sorry but that broken leg changes everthing…ur outta hereeee.” (Lawyer up…my wife is fine, no injuries, still running fine..no worries…just wanted to be clear!!!!)
Well, over the past few weeks my Corvette has been a serving up a bunch of consternation.
If you remember a few posts back I had replaced one power steering hose and need help with the power steering reservoir. That got done. Shortly after that, a leak developed from the front end and over the course of two days it got a little worse. So I pulled it in to the garage and crawled under neight..and that’s no small effort.
The power steer of course provided hydraulic power to make the turning of the front wheels easier. (There you got the basics of the how it works.) This entire process insists that the fluid, in this case power steering fluid stays in place. Well my beauty failed conform to the standards.
Rack Pinion
If you look at the image above you’ll see the plastic boots (A) that cover and protect the shaft. Those are supposed to be dry. When I touched the boot on the left side of the Vette fluid poured out, clearly it was no longer dry. What was also very very clear at that exact moment was the pain in my wallet.
Basically, the you have two options when something that is supposed to be dry is wet on a car, replace it or rebuild it. I chose both. Lucky for me the complete unit for my 84 Vette is still available through on-line Corvette parts houses. EEERRRRKKKK..While I’m writing this I have the Speed channel up on up in the corner of my monitor, they are testing an Aston Martin DBS against a Bentley w/ W12 engine…soft girl cars…of course that girl’s got some skills, putting eyeliner on at 150 miles per hour!!….end of EERRRKKK – I’ll let you know how that turns out.
A quick trip down the street to Tim Sisk proved my investigative results. I’m the Average guy with Average skills, there was not something I wanted to attempt. Additionally, it requires a front end alignment. So I order one, and because I hate having the car in the shop I had it expressed shipped, or at least that’s what I asked. It didn’t shipped and took a total of four days. What…you say…”oooohhh poor baby, took 4 days to get it here!” Hey, that’s a life time for some car guys!!!!
Now ordering the rack and pinion requires a core charge (that’s where you have to return the old part or pay the core fee – they rebuild the old part and resell it) but as I stated I wanted to do both so I paid the core fee and kept the part. This allows me to either learn to rebuild the part or sent it out to have it rebuild and store it way. Plus I have the original part, although there isn’t much benefit in collector value for having the orignal rack and pinion (numbers matching) 84 Vette, well least not for another 20 years!!!!
The part was replaced and the car realigned, in total it was out of service for a solid 7 days. Picked the car up and drove it home and that was that…and if you believe that, I have some swamp land out here in AZ to sell ya!!! Stay tune for what happened next
Oh…the Aston Martin and Bentley match up. Here the details:
Braking 0-100 to 0 (time speeding getting up to 100 and then distance measured for stopping-shortest distance wind) ….15 second from 0 to 100 for both cars, breaking the Aston won at 40 feet shorter stopping distance.
60-130 test on roll – Bentley win 13.2 second, nearly a second faster than the Aston
The rolling mile – top speed 165 mph for Bentley, 1 second faster than the Aston – 159 mph
Road course – 55.6 seconds for the Bentley 53.8 seconds for the Aston
Like I said – girls car..my 84 Vette has a top speed of nearly 200 miles an hour. My personal best, 174 mile per hour in the Vette – yeah that’s just last year. Dyno proven.
You may only have ever heard the name Imperial with the name Chrysler in front of it, but there was a brief period when it was its own company…sort of. In 1955 Chrysler spun off the Imperial as its own separate marquis in an attempt to compete directly with the Cadillac and Lincoln luxury marquees offered by General Motors and Ford. It was to be a luxury branding.
Beautiful ’55 Imperial (not a Chrysler…well not one on paper)
Imperial continued as its “own” company until 1975. Even though it was always sold in Chryslers dealerships, it was, on paper, a separate its own company. From 1976 to 1978 no Imperials were made, at least by name the Chrysler New Yorker Brougham was the name plate used at the time.
However, in 1981-1982 Chrysler was looking for a luxury model to add to its line up and decided it would try it again. The new luxury car would be named the “Imperial”. This was in fact a K car but let’s not dwell on that. What was really important was the latest Aerospace technology that was being used under the hood for the first time in a car.
1983 K Car Chrysler Imperial EFI
The Imperial was the first car fully fitted with a continuous-flow injection system. Oh and the workhorse engine they choose to make this historical leap…yup the one, the only 5.2L, V8….318, thereby, making this a historic event in the auto industry and for the 318. This new fuel delivery system was monitored by a combustion computer and adjusted the fuel/air mixture to the driving conditions. The idea was to improve gas mileage. The 318 was able to produce 140 hp and 240 ft lbs asphalt gripe and go from 0 to 50 mph under 10 seconds.
EFI Set Up from a 1982 318
Unfortunately the design was flawed. There were issues with the fuel, octane content and vacuum connections (not unlike issue with GM’s Crossfire engine used in the 82 GM models and including my 1984 Corvette). It was so unfriendly that customers began trading the Imperials in 1981. It reached a tipping point and Chrysler recalled the 318s and most were fitted with a two barrel carb instead. It is difficult to tell but according to some sources the 318 Imperial may have been fitted with 2v or 4v carb, producing 130 and 165 horsepower, respectively, in 1982 and 1983.
Either way the 318 had been the center piece for a leap forward in design…ok…ok…there was a leap and then a fall and then a backwards somersault. Nonetheless it was historical.
Thanks for reading. Next up with the how Dodge used the 318
OH….the Corvetttes at Carlisle is a huge event going on over in Carlisle PA. I might make it there one of these years.
For all you caddy lovers on 8/27/1902 the Cadillac company was born. Yup it was its own company.
This sure isnt' what one thinks of when they think of a Cadillac
Oh and this was the olds from around that era:
1897 Olds.
London, England had an auto (and plane) historical event this week. Charles Rolls was born on 8/27/1877 (Rolls Royce). Beside creating the an iconic car, they did plane engines and more.
8/8/55 – test of first solar car. William Cobb created a prototype, but it was only a 15 inch model. Basically, an electric current was produced that in turn powered a tiny motor. The motor turned the vehicle’s driveshaft, which was connected to its rear axle by a pulley. I couldn’t find a pic of this one. However, Alan Freeman developed the solar-powered car in 1979 that you could actually put a human in. Here’s the pic. (It’s really just a bike…I think.)
Alan's Solar Car.
8/11/66 Chevy introduced the Camaro. There is some discussion on whether there is such an animal as a 1966 Camaro, they were, build in 1966 but sold in 1967. Here a pic.
8/15/56 Packard no longer producing cars in Detroit. Previously the Packard company bought Studebaker and tried to keep the Packard name a live in 1957 by reworking a Studebaker and give it the Packard name.
1956Packard
1957 Packard...looks alot like Studebaker
8/21/1897 Oldsmobile becomes a company. Of course the company is no longer in business another icon gone.
Now the Mustang is a fairly simple machine, even the electrical system is easy to work through. Pls note, I hate electrical problems and I equally dislike having to chance them down and I don’t care how simple it is. My 84 Corvette is nothing short of a nightmare.
Keeping this stuff straight is hard to do. Now tearing out an engine doesn’t necessarily mean you are starting out with all new wiring, but it could. A tip I use is to label everyone single wire with (normally) white duct tape.
Like so: (not white duct tape!!)
This actually reads: Starter Relay. (Yeah...spelling issues..like you haven't noticed!!!)
This is eXtremely handy. For example there are no less than 18 different wires just on the driver’s door for the Corvette. I’ve taken the door apart so many times for repair, that I started leaving them labeled.
Of course you can use this for hoses, lines and parts.
Before I start this next segment on the 318, I have to admit that organizing and presenting this work of art (oh..yeah..I’m laughing too!!!!) could have gone in a lot of directions. The two that stuck out the most for me was by year (chronologically) or by brand. Neither was a solid idea and at some point in the ’70s the only thing separating brands within most U.S. car manufacturers wasn’t much more than vinyl vs cloth seat covering. So I decided to go with brands, Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth, knowing that there we would be some crossover information and it might look a bit disjointed. There’s some good stuff, and a couple of things you might know about the 318.
Chrysler began using the 318 in 1967 and carried that power plant until the late 1990s.
From 1967 to 1971 the 318 carried a 230 hp rating w/ the standard 2 barrel carb, managed 340 ft lb of torque and sported 9.2:1 compression ratio. (that is actually a lower compression ratio than the original Ford 250 straight six I took out of my Mustang). In 1967 the 318 engine was used in the Belvedere, Satellite, Fury, Coronet, Polara and Charger and in 1968 they added as the base option in the Dart GTS and Barracuda.
1967 Polara 4 door.
From 1972 to 1979 the 318 was bounced around in the horsepower arena between 150 to 140. That’s nearly 100 hps lost from the late 1960’s. At lower end of the new scale were the California models with the extra smog control. It was still a mainstay, being the base engine choice for the Duster, Cordoba, Monaco, New Port and unexpectedly the Road Runner, just to name a few. It was never sported anything bigger than a 2 barrel carb and the compression dropped to 8.5.
It didn’t get any prettier in the 80s either, although there a bit of a bump in the high-end of the hp range to 175 hp but the company more than made up for that dropping the lowest number 120. Interestingly, they made the California models with 155 hp and a 4 barrel carb. The compression stayed about the same, but in ’83 – ’90 they made a HD version of the engine that had between 165 to 175 hp, depending on the year and sported a 4 barrel carb. This configuration managed to lay down 240 – 250 ft lb of torque, not too bad in one of the lighter cars, like the Dart, but barely power enough for the big old St. Regis. The 318 was also added to some of the most memorable cars….come on..you doesn’t remember “vooo..la rau….oh..oh…” (Volare )and the LeBaron, and Aspen. Even some larger cars like the St. Regis, New Yorker, Gran Fury (I can’t see any car begin called grand with only 120 hp, but that’s just me.) and the Imperial.
1976 Volare
Oh and speaking of the Imperial something interesting happened in 1982 and 1983. That little something was EFI. More on that in the next segment.
Hello, my brother and I are thinking of taking on a project and would like to know if the throttle body injection components from the 1989 318 in his truck will work on a 1979 318 engine. The reasoning behind this is due to our …
